Talk:Dervish
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dervish article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 12 months  |
 | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
.jpg){kind=small}
Historical and political use
[edit]I just removed the following text from the section on historical and political use of the term:
- However, all Sufi orders, including the derwish orders, posed a strong opposition to colonialism and islamic fundamentalism. There are Qadiri derwishes involved in battles with al shabab islamists in Somalia[1][2]. Derwish orders where also involved in violent uprisings in China such as the Dungan revolt[3][4]. It may be wrong to asume the derwishes only engage in postcard style sufi whirling and hadhra when peoples lives and well being are at risk. As a result, colonial administration tried to uproot Sufism and favour orthodox islamic clerics who portrayed Sufism as folk Islam, backward or supersticious[5]. This practice extended in secular Turkey as part of Kemalism where most Sufi practices are still banned today (except whirling for tourists).
- ^ http://books.google.com/books?id=iMRf1RZ9zkAC&pg=PA27&dq=dervishes+in+warfare&hl=en&ei=KtYRTpqAOIiy8gP4n62gDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=dervishes%20in%20warfare&f=false
- ^ http://books.google.com/books?id=Yv74WDpVrVgC&pg=PA59
- ^ http://books.google.com/books?id=AtduqAtBzegC
- ^ http://books.google.com/books?id=GXgkHBRRKd4C&pg
- ^ http://books.google.com/books?id=4o2x_9aRLXcC&pg=PA55#v=onepage&q&f=false
This is unsourced - while references are given, they do not really say what they are supposed to say. The Somalia sources mention "Dervishes" in connection with the Somalian-British conflict in the early 20th century (and we already mention that in other paragraphs), but they don't mention Qadiri derwishes or al shabab islamists. The China sources are even worse - one does not even mention Dervishes at all, and Sufis only a couple of centuries before the conflict it's supposed to be about, while the other states that the rebel leader was chosen despite being a darvish ascetic, not because of it; neither mentions "Derwish orders". Finally, the "folk islam" source indeed says that Sufi islam is "folk islam" and that superstition is essential to it, but that's in connection with neither colonial administrations nor Dervishes, but in the context of modern societies. It says nothing about preferential treatment for orthodox islam; it technically does not even say that it was the orthodox clerics who portrayed Sufism as backwards and superstitious. Unless sources can be presented which actually say what they are supposed to, this paragraph is not verifiable and thus unsuited for Wikipedia. Huon (talk) 21:25, 4 July 2011 (UTC)